Bad delete programming has become a huge plague in the trucking industry...

[Rawze]

Just like the title says ... Bad delete programming has become a huge plague in the trucking industry.

This is because of the truck and auto tuning sites, fafefook, and other social medai sites that spread bad information, combined with a large number of people who try to do this type of work being extremely narcissistic/arrogant in their abilities.


More then 90%+ of all de-mandate (delete) programming that i review suffers the same horrible mistakes that cut engine life in half or less, and it is not good at all. These mistakes are made out of sheer lack of understanding on how a modern diesel engine works as a whole, combined with a assumption that the "ECM" (engine control module) is far smarter than it actually is.

Here are the 2 most major (and therefore damaging) factors that people who try to do custom/de-mandate tuning seems to lack or outright refuse to believe ...

A)> Engine control modules are beyond dumb as a brick!.

- When someone "guts those cans" and "removed the egr gas" in one way or another, this act in itself makes ALL of the factory programming settings that involves combustion, etc. in the ECM very harmful to the engine right away.

That ecm is NOT going to correct ANYTHING WHATSOEVER inside itself at all. - It is not nearly that smart and everything from injection timing, fuel air mix, and every other factor is absolutely harmful to the internals. The result by "leaving everything as factory as possible" internally, significantly shortens the engine lifespan by half or less, simply because it was untouched.

When sensors get unplugged and egr gas flow stops.. that ECM is simply going to use its default values for gas flow into the intake and assume its all still there. It cannot make corrections for unplugged or zero-reading sensors. - It cannot "fix" the combustion and other processes to compensate for any of it at all. - It is FAR TOO STUPID!. It is a LITERAL DEVICE WITH NO INTELLIGENCE TO FIX ANYTHING FOR YOU!.


B)> Engine operating mode control logic that all these delete people pretend is non-existent, or have zero clue about, will continue to assume all of those systems are still in place and then freak out!.

- Once the "cans under the truck" are gutted, the engine mode control / ecm assumes the DPF, etc. cans are at zero degrees temp. This blindly shoves the engine operating mode control logic straight into one of its rapid After-treatment heating modes. That ECM is DUMB AS A BRICK!> and it will enter these mode(s) with no regard, and it does not matter how many after-treaement system settings that some idiot tries to defeat or switch off in the ecu, it will have zero effect on the engine mode control logic.

In the ecm, the engine mode control logic is a completely independent and separate system from all the after-treatment logic, and people who make bad delete programming ignore it completely, because they do not know it even exists, and then assume like fools that there is some kind of hidden voodoo magic that will fix itself. - The only problem is that this is a diluted fantasy, and there is no "auto-correct" in any way. - That ECM is beyond dumb as a brick!.

This sums up the second most harmful thing that bad delete programs have in them.

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Factors A and B absolutely will cause engine damage over time, cutting engine and turbocharger life-span in half or less. This, all while the driver will often swear they cannot tell that there is much of anything wrong until it is far too late. This is WHY it is such a plague in trucking, as the truck owner often does not know the engine is internally fighting itself all the time, the turbo is over-spooling, and engine is desperately trying to warm up a DPF can that is not even there any more... it creating all kinds of engine life-shortening friction and harm to itself internally all the time.

-- So ... can de-mandate programming be done correctly?... ABSOLUTELY!.. but it is not done by "adjusting as little as possible" and hoping that the ecu's hidden fairy dust angels will fix the rest of it for you.,. because this is NOT going to happen!.

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Summing up the most common mistakes that I typically see ....

After a de-mandate,.. in the programming ...

== NO engine operating mode control re-mapping being properly done. - VERY harmful.

== Improper corrections (or no corrections at all) to things like injection timing, etc. which amplifies the already harmful factory settings once the EGR gas is taken away from the intake. - VERY harmful.

== Blocking/hiding fault codes instead of shutting everything off properly. - A confused ECM and eventual ghost issues arise that no one can solve when the engine does act up.

== Disabling engine protections that would otherwise prevent harm like turbo / exhaust over pressure over-spool protections.

== Disabling combustion logic protections that help keep engine friction down, etc.

== Turning off protections that normally prevent hard shifts on automatic transmissions and therefore shortening the life of the transmission / its clutch.

== Turning off faults that would otherwise help someone properly troubleshoot the engine if there are problems.

== Damaging the program by way of using third-party (non OEM ) tools like win%ols. efi, ez&$link, and several others. - Third party tools are notorious for this, and then the engine ends up with ghost problems, derates, etc. that seem to come and go.

== copying settings from one program to another for an engine that does not need those particular settings.

== Sometimes I see someone who has completely destroyed the engines proper power/torque curve, assuming like a fool that it was only some kind of "limiter" table of some sort. - This is common too.

-- The list goes on and on .. and this seems to be the norm, not the exception .. so the next time you see some clueless idiot telling you that it only takes a few hundreds of settings to de-mandate an engine that has more than 20,000+ adjustments, then that is someone who is truly in the dark about what the heck they are doing.

FACT: Modern diesel engines are completely capable of mechanically tearing its own guts out even before adding any power to them. It is only that ECU and its dumb as a rock programming that is keeping it together, .. and disturbing it improperly (by assuming everything needs to be left alone outside of some aftertreatment faults to go away) takes its toll real fast.

It takes a proper understanding on HOW that ecm actually works ... and a basic understanding of HOW that engine operates as a whole + understanding the ways in which it can in fact harm itself internally, etc.. , , far before some yahoo decides to go digging in the programming to "shut off some faults". and then proceeds to hollow those cans, remove that EGR, etc.. because there is FAR MORE TO IT than what people think.

Here is a running list of bad deletes seen on this forum.. it is not all of them, but quit a few nonetheless...
The bad delete4 collection: https://rawze.com/forums/showthread.php?...5#pid13255

and here is a link to my mumble server where these topics are discussed in better detail...
info: http://rawze.com/forums/showthread.php?t...63#pid2163

[mikkhh]

That bad programming not only limited to trucks, average cars and other makes and brands of engines and equipment than red engines are even worse since there is almost no one in the plain public who does them correctly or has some kind of understanding how a modern diesel engine works.

The logic outlined in the post here with regards to operating modes, timings and so on applies to every single emissions equipped engine out there.

There exist high sulphur fuel conversion programming for some engines and makes but not for all, but almost every single one of them just gets rid of the cans, but EGR stays there! Some engines have different hardware (pistons, cams(s)) for one that came from factory with cans EGR and other emissions. Electronically controlled commercial or highway use engine that does not have EGR from the factory and or cans from factory still has emissions on it - there are internal calculations for nOx, NH3 etc that engine has to meet and adhere to. Even if engine has no EGR, but only DOC (some have dual catalysts - for nOx and SOx), those catalytics are not passive, they are regenerated!!!.